A dialogue between Moses (1392 - 1272 B.C.) and Aristotle (384 - 322 B.C.) - from Transcripts of their debate.
Note by the Scribe (writer) : This piece was compiled with the latest facts and interpretations of History and the Bible. It is, after all, an unfinished work as the dialogue will only be conducted after the rapture when everyone will know everything, but it is also conceivable that it has already taken place, because there is no clear scripture that says one first has to go to a place of detention before inheriting your prize - be that eternal life or eternal damnation.
In any case, chances are that this would be a very accurate transcription of that diualogue. Part of this is of course speculation.
The intent of this dialogue is to bring the false theories, false statements, frailties and errors of humans to light, whilst confirming the events of the Bible which has stayed true for 3 300 years.
The reason that I have chosen these two characters is that both are the best mankind had to offer in these fields - Moses as an exemplary example of a man of God and Aristotle as an exemplary example of human excellence and human failure.
Although I have tried to interpret the Bible and History as accurately as possible, I have had to use my poetic license to fill in the gaps, but I have not stretched that license unduly. If I have unduly criticised someone, due to my ignorance, I beg their pardon beforehand. I do, however, give them the benefit of the doubt as I am writing this with hindsight which is 20/20 vision, whilst they did this in uncertain times, in doubt, with partial knowledge, in the heat of the moment and some under pressure and duress.
PART 1
Introduction and background.
Moses : Hi there Ari, and how are you today ?
Aristotle : Very well thanks, and you Moses ?
Moses : Very excited thanks. From where are you arrived in such a rush with your hair so blown and such a pale complexion?
Aristotle : I have gone* to and fro in the 'milky way' , and from walking up to walking down in it. ... seeking rest for my soul .... and seeking my god, Apollo Lyceus, to whom, as you may know, I have named my own college, The Lyceum. We had our own gods in Macedon and Athens where I spent most of my life.
(* Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. )
Moses : I think you better look for his damaged statue on earth - that's all that was left of him after Armageddon. In fact, you might want to gather some of the heavier stones* that is left of it, because you will need it later.
(* Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! v:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.)
Aristotle : Do you mean that your gods are better than mine, Mister Know-all ?
Moses : But did you not read that Abraham said there was only one God.
Aristotle : Who was Abraham? I thought I was the only human who knew everything.
Moses : I know everything* too now - eternal and spiritual - that concerns me, and even more!! Didn't you know that Apollo Luceus was a figment of your mind, and that the Bible says that there is only one God**, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ?
(* 1 Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.)
(** Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he)
Aristotle : I did not even know these gods you talk of.
The future of Israel.
Moses : You could have read that in my Book, the Torah ? Everybody said you were the last person on earth who knew everything that was to be known in your time, and that you took such a special interest in the riddles of the Delphic Oracle.
Aristotle : No, I never bothered reading your book although it was in our library - that was only Jewish propaganda and as for the Delphic Oracles, I never had any respect for Greek gods, but my students and I used to interpret them from a theoretical scienctific viewpoint.
Moses : Then you must have known that those riddles were totally ambiguous, covering all possible outcomes of the question posed. They could never be wrong, although one has to admit that most of the time one had to stretch your imagination and their interpretation to unbelievable extremes to make them coherent.
Aristotle : Tell me, what are you doing here ?
Moses : Man, you would not believe me, but I have taken the Israelites out of another bondage on a new Exodus called Exodus II, from where they lived in bondage on Earth and I am now settling them, as a first step, on Planet Rebekah in the Southern tip of the Milky way. We are 144 000 souls * that arrived here about six months ago, after a trip of 40 (light) years, although I must confess that I have lost all track of time **. I have instructions from God to prepare the planet for the first few billion Israelites ***, which is Rebekah's descendants, who will be born here and live here in peace ****.
This, of course, is apart from the trillions of trillions ***** that will be the descendants of our father Abraham, of which the descendants of Rebekah are not a part.
(* Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.)
(** Rev 10:6 ..... that there should be time no longer)
(*** Gen 24:60 And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.)
(**** Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. v:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. v:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. v:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. v:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. v:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. v:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. v:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. v:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.)
( ***** Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.)
Aristotle : Yes, I have heard some talk of your Exodus, but this now ? Looks to me that the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Moses : No, no, don't misunderstand me, this is quite a new Exodus, no Pharoah chasing me this time, but as you say, God repeats His themes again and again so that we can understand His Big Plan better. You would not know the new Testament, but therein is repeated the gist of God's plan with each individual and the world. Each individual has to be baptised with water, then baptised with fire and die and be reborn and so the earth has been baptised with water (the flood of Noah), baptised with fire (The war of Armageddon) en reborn (The New Jerusalem.) The same applied to Jesus Christ. It was also the theme when Eliah baptised the altar and God rained fire from Heaven onto it*. How many times do you want God to repeat this before we will understand ?
(* 1Ki 18:33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood. v:34 And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time.
v:38 Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.)
Who shall we believe - Moses or Aristotle ?
Aristotle : I would not be so stupid to as settle on such a planet as this - look you have no sea*, and back home we liked to live near the sea.
(* Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. )
Moses : At least I am not as ignorant as you have been. The philosopher Bertrand Russell said that : 'Almost every serious intellectual advance has had to begin with an attack on some Aristotelian doctrine. You remember Bertie, being such an outspoken atheist, had such hard luck, being left behind on earth when those nuclear devices exploded at Megiddo (Armageddon).
Aristotle : I am not as ignorant as you might think - my father was physician for King Amyntas of Macedonia and I was brought up as an aristocrat.
Moses : And so have I. I was brought up in the court of Pharoah Rameses II as one of his two sons, although I was adopted, and I had the best education that anyone could wish for in those times. In fact, I also might have become king, if it was not for that mishap where I killed an Egyptian, and I had to flee and also because I valued the friendship of God* more than the friendship of man.
(*Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.)
Aristotle : Amazing ! They also thought that I had killed Alexander the Great, but I fled in time to my mother's estate, when they also accused me of despising their gods. That is also the reason Alexander (The Great) threatened to kill me, and that after I taugth him everything he knew, just because I said he was not a god.
Moses : But I heard they said that you were such a useless tutor in politics, because you put your life on City States, while Alexander concentrated on States - he could he have taught you something.
Be that as it may, my real critcism against you is that you said the universe, sun, moon and earth had never been made, but that it has existed through all the ages from eternity, whilst, had you but the time and inclination to read my Torah, you would have known that God created all this at some time in the past.
You also spread the delusion that the earth was the centre of the universe and that species do not evolve.
Aristotle : What do you know about these things, what sciences did you study and under whom ? Don't you know that I studied under the Great Socrates and Plato.
Moses : God told me that He created heaven and earth in the beginning and that is enough for me, because I trust Him. He knows much more than I do as He created all these things.
Aristotle : But that is not a riddle !
Moses : Neither was it supposed to be, because God spoke to me from mouth to mouth*.
(* Num 12:8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches)
Aristotle : I do not believe you. How can God speak to you or anyone, and what is more, that statement of yours about the creation of the universe is contrary to my own theories and observations.
Moses : And what are your theories and observations ?
Aristotle : Man is the crown and centre piece of the universe and thus his position must be in the middle. And what is more - anybody can see that the stars,sun and moon moves around the earth.
Moses : Wow !! Your invented Logic, which was used for the next 2 200 years, and you tell me that you made these important and wild statements without the scientific and mathematical process of your Logic. Your notions for the centrality of earth will not cut the mustard in any intellectual argument being as you term it an irrelevant conclusion.
Note by the Scribe (writer) : This piece was compiled with the latest facts and interpretations of History and the Bible. It is, after all, an unfinished work as the dialogue will only be conducted after the rapture when everyone will know everything, but it is also conceivable that it has already taken place, because there is no clear scripture that says one first has to go to a place of detention before inheriting your prize - be that eternal life or eternal damnation.
In any case, chances are that this would be a very accurate transcription of that diualogue. Part of this is of course speculation.
The intent of this dialogue is to bring the false theories, false statements, frailties and errors of humans to light, whilst confirming the events of the Bible which has stayed true for 3 300 years.
The reason that I have chosen these two characters is that both are the best mankind had to offer in these fields - Moses as an exemplary example of a man of God and Aristotle as an exemplary example of human excellence and human failure.
Although I have tried to interpret the Bible and History as accurately as possible, I have had to use my poetic license to fill in the gaps, but I have not stretched that license unduly. If I have unduly criticised someone, due to my ignorance, I beg their pardon beforehand. I do, however, give them the benefit of the doubt as I am writing this with hindsight which is 20/20 vision, whilst they did this in uncertain times, in doubt, with partial knowledge, in the heat of the moment and some under pressure and duress.
PART 1
Introduction and background.
Moses : Hi there Ari, and how are you today ?
Aristotle : Very well thanks, and you Moses ?
Moses : Very excited thanks. From where are you arrived in such a rush with your hair so blown and such a pale complexion?
Aristotle : I have gone* to and fro in the 'milky way' , and from walking up to walking down in it. ... seeking rest for my soul .... and seeking my god, Apollo Lyceus, to whom, as you may know, I have named my own college, The Lyceum. We had our own gods in Macedon and Athens where I spent most of my life.
(* Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. )
Moses : I think you better look for his damaged statue on earth - that's all that was left of him after Armageddon. In fact, you might want to gather some of the heavier stones* that is left of it, because you will need it later.
(* Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! v:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.)
Aristotle : Do you mean that your gods are better than mine, Mister Know-all ?
Moses : But did you not read that Abraham said there was only one God.
Aristotle : Who was Abraham? I thought I was the only human who knew everything.
Moses : I know everything* too now - eternal and spiritual - that concerns me, and even more!! Didn't you know that Apollo Luceus was a figment of your mind, and that the Bible says that there is only one God**, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ?
(* 1 Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.)
(** Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he)
Aristotle : I did not even know these gods you talk of.
The future of Israel.
Moses : You could have read that in my Book, the Torah ? Everybody said you were the last person on earth who knew everything that was to be known in your time, and that you took such a special interest in the riddles of the Delphic Oracle.
Aristotle : No, I never bothered reading your book although it was in our library - that was only Jewish propaganda and as for the Delphic Oracles, I never had any respect for Greek gods, but my students and I used to interpret them from a theoretical scienctific viewpoint.
Moses : Then you must have known that those riddles were totally ambiguous, covering all possible outcomes of the question posed. They could never be wrong, although one has to admit that most of the time one had to stretch your imagination and their interpretation to unbelievable extremes to make them coherent.
Aristotle : Tell me, what are you doing here ?
Moses : Man, you would not believe me, but I have taken the Israelites out of another bondage on a new Exodus called Exodus II, from where they lived in bondage on Earth and I am now settling them, as a first step, on Planet Rebekah in the Southern tip of the Milky way. We are 144 000 souls * that arrived here about six months ago, after a trip of 40 (light) years, although I must confess that I have lost all track of time **. I have instructions from God to prepare the planet for the first few billion Israelites ***, which is Rebekah's descendants, who will be born here and live here in peace ****.
This, of course, is apart from the trillions of trillions ***** that will be the descendants of our father Abraham, of which the descendants of Rebekah are not a part.
(* Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.)
(** Rev 10:6 ..... that there should be time no longer)
(*** Gen 24:60 And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.)
(**** Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. v:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. v:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. v:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. v:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. v:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. v:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. v:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. v:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.)
( ***** Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.)
Aristotle : Yes, I have heard some talk of your Exodus, but this now ? Looks to me that the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Moses : No, no, don't misunderstand me, this is quite a new Exodus, no Pharoah chasing me this time, but as you say, God repeats His themes again and again so that we can understand His Big Plan better. You would not know the new Testament, but therein is repeated the gist of God's plan with each individual and the world. Each individual has to be baptised with water, then baptised with fire and die and be reborn and so the earth has been baptised with water (the flood of Noah), baptised with fire (The war of Armageddon) en reborn (The New Jerusalem.) The same applied to Jesus Christ. It was also the theme when Eliah baptised the altar and God rained fire from Heaven onto it*. How many times do you want God to repeat this before we will understand ?
(* 1Ki 18:33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood. v:34 And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time.
v:38 Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.)
Who shall we believe - Moses or Aristotle ?
Aristotle : I would not be so stupid to as settle on such a planet as this - look you have no sea*, and back home we liked to live near the sea.
(* Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. )
Moses : At least I am not as ignorant as you have been. The philosopher Bertrand Russell said that : 'Almost every serious intellectual advance has had to begin with an attack on some Aristotelian doctrine. You remember Bertie, being such an outspoken atheist, had such hard luck, being left behind on earth when those nuclear devices exploded at Megiddo (Armageddon).
Aristotle : I am not as ignorant as you might think - my father was physician for King Amyntas of Macedonia and I was brought up as an aristocrat.
Moses : And so have I. I was brought up in the court of Pharoah Rameses II as one of his two sons, although I was adopted, and I had the best education that anyone could wish for in those times. In fact, I also might have become king, if it was not for that mishap where I killed an Egyptian, and I had to flee and also because I valued the friendship of God* more than the friendship of man.
(*Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.)
Aristotle : Amazing ! They also thought that I had killed Alexander the Great, but I fled in time to my mother's estate, when they also accused me of despising their gods. That is also the reason Alexander (The Great) threatened to kill me, and that after I taugth him everything he knew, just because I said he was not a god.
Moses : But I heard they said that you were such a useless tutor in politics, because you put your life on City States, while Alexander concentrated on States - he could he have taught you something.
Be that as it may, my real critcism against you is that you said the universe, sun, moon and earth had never been made, but that it has existed through all the ages from eternity, whilst, had you but the time and inclination to read my Torah, you would have known that God created all this at some time in the past.
You also spread the delusion that the earth was the centre of the universe and that species do not evolve.
Aristotle : What do you know about these things, what sciences did you study and under whom ? Don't you know that I studied under the Great Socrates and Plato.
Moses : God told me that He created heaven and earth in the beginning and that is enough for me, because I trust Him. He knows much more than I do as He created all these things.
Aristotle : But that is not a riddle !
Moses : Neither was it supposed to be, because God spoke to me from mouth to mouth*.
(* Num 12:8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches)
Aristotle : I do not believe you. How can God speak to you or anyone, and what is more, that statement of yours about the creation of the universe is contrary to my own theories and observations.
Moses : And what are your theories and observations ?
Aristotle : Man is the crown and centre piece of the universe and thus his position must be in the middle. And what is more - anybody can see that the stars,sun and moon moves around the earth.
Moses : Wow !! Your invented Logic, which was used for the next 2 200 years, and you tell me that you made these important and wild statements without the scientific and mathematical process of your Logic. Your notions for the centrality of earth will not cut the mustard in any intellectual argument being as you term it an irrelevant conclusion.
No comments:
Post a Comment